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Converting black box lens model to non-sequential version

  • 8 October 2019
  • 27 replies
  • 1253 views

Hello,



I'm using the following knowledge base article to convert a lens design file (sequential) into it's non-sequential alternative:

https://customers.zemax.com/os/resources/learn/knowledgebase/how-to-convert-sequential-surfaces-to-non-sequenti



Does it also work on black box models? Thank you in advance!



 
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Best answer by Angel Morales 8 October 2019, 18:03

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27 replies

Userlevel 5
Badge +1
Hi Ruxandra-Marina!



Currently, Black Box files are not supported in Non-Sequential Mode. They will just be left out of the conversion altogether. So, the only workaround is to see if you can obtain the actual surface information for your black box portions of your system.



However, this specific functionality has been brought up by our users before, so I will go ahead and add your vote to the associated feature request. I have to mention here that a feature request is not a guarantee that the feature will be implemented in a future release, as they are weighed based on impact, functionality, and difficulty to implement. Still, we appreciate all feedback as it helps us shape the future of OpticStudio!



Thanks again -- please feel free to ask any more questions as they come up!



- Angel
Userlevel 1
Hay,



Thanks I was just looking at how to do this yesterday. Can you please add my vote to this feature request.



Cheers



Matthew

 
Userlevel 5
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Hey Matthew,



No problem -- done! Many thanks for your feedback :)



- Angel
Hey,



Please add my vote as well.



Thanks..
Userlevel 3
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@ Zain Ali - Ive added your vote as well. 
Add my vote to this please. It will be very useful.
Userlevel 7
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I think I should point out why we don't support the black box in non-sequential mode. 



In NS mode, light can hit any of the components in any order, and it's really impossible to hide the optical construction of the black box. You could easily trace rays in a sphere around the NS and deduce the number of components, radii, thicknesses, glass etc.



The only way we could support an NS black box is to imagine the lens system inside an absorbing black tube, with an entrance and exit port. Light could only enter the black box from the entrance port, and only exit it from the exit port. That's the only way we could reasonably preserve the IP of the lens system.



With that caveat, how many people still find this a useful feature?
Hello Mark,



Thank you for the additional information. I would still find this feature useful - I don't see the absorbing black tube being a constraint in my current experiments.



However, in the absence of such a tube, can't specific rays be traced with the help of filters? Unless your comment was more on the fact that the "confidentiality" of a black box would no longer be supported without including the absorbing black tube.



Ruxandra
Userlevel 1
This would still be useful, aslong as it allows for the purpose of the device to be tested and used in NS.
Userlevel 3
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I could see this being useful as well. I've done some analysis in NSC for a system where I wanted to swap out the microscope objective. It would have been nice to just insert a black box object as one is able to insert CAD components and such.
Hi all, 

I realized this black box topic in non-sequential mode has been a few months. Just wonder if it has been added and if not, please add my vote.  I do find it would be useful. 



Thanks.

Hello,


This feature would be useful for me too. I have a black box model that I want to use together with a source file, so I can't really do that in sequential mode. So even with the limitation it would still be very nice to have that.


Best,


Chiara

Userlevel 5
Badge +2

Hello All,


Thanks for your feedback. I have added your votes to the feature request.


Still, please keep in mind that feature requests are weighed based on impact, difficulty to implement, and the number of users who request it. A request is not a guarantee that the feature will be added to a future release.


However, these feature requests are very important to us and shape the future of OpticStudio, so we appreciate your input.


Thank you,


Csilla

Badge +2

A NSC lens system inside an absorbing black tube, with an entrance and exit port would be useful.

Userlevel 5
Badge +2

Hi Steve,


Thank you for your comment. I have added your vote to the the feature request.


Best,


Csilla

Please add my vote as well.

Userlevel 5
Badge +2

Hi Henrik,


Thanks for your post.


I have added your name to the feature request.


Best,


Csilla


 

Badge

This could be helpful for me today even if there was a black tube.  Please add my vote.

Please add my vote too. Thanks!

Badge

I think I should point out why we don't support the black box in non-sequential mode. 



In NS mode, light can hit any of the components in any order, and it's really impossible to hide the optical construction of the black box. You could easily trace rays in a sphere around the NS and deduce the number of components, radii, thicknesses, glass etc.



The only way we could support an NS black box is to imagine the lens system inside an absorbing black tube, with an entrance and exit port. Light could only enter the black box from the entrance port, and only exit it from the exit port. That's the only way we could reasonably preserve the IP of the lens system.



With that caveat, how many people still find this a useful feature?

I would find that approach useful for modelling systems with commercial lenses.

Userlevel 3
Badge +4

I have dealt with this concept using the ZOS-API.  There are several architectures for code to consider.  However, consider the following:

  • Open your sequential blackbox model in one instance of the OpticStudio
  • Open your non-sequential model in another instance of OpticStudio and create a detector to represent the entrance / exit pupil of your blackbox lens
  • Start rays in the non-sequential model, detect them at the entrance pupil of your sequential model
  • Pass these to the sequential model and trace them
  • Receive the rays from the sequential model exit pupil and feed them to your non-sequential model

What you will get:

  1. Rays that make sense in the sequential model will be faithfully represented in the non-sequential model
  2. Rays that are terminated in the sequential model will be terminated in the non-sequential model.

What you won’t get:

  1. Stray light
  2. Ghost reflections
  3. Fresnel reflections or coating issues

However, you wouldn’t get any of these in your original blackbox model anyway; these constructs don’t exist in most sequential models.

Badge

Thanks Brian,

I think that is similar to what I was thinking, but it had not occurred to me to separate the problem into three parts (NSeq>Seq>NSeq) as you suggested.  I think doing that will accomplish what I need.  Thanks for the help!

Charlie

A NSC lens system inside an absorbing black tube, with an entrance and exit port would be useful for me as well!

Hi all,

Please, add my vote to the feature request too. As long as the black box fulfills its function to simulate the system’s properties, it’s useful.

Hello,

I have dealt with this concept using the ZOS-API.  There are several architectures for code to consider.  However, consider the following:

  • Open your sequential blackbox model in one instance of the OpticStudio
  • Open your non-sequential model in another instance of OpticStudio and create a detector to represent the entrance / exit pupil of your blackbox lens
  • Start rays in the non-sequential model, detect them at the entrance pupil of your sequential model
  • Pass these to the sequential model and trace them
  • Receive the rays from the sequential model exit pupil and feed them to your non-sequential model

What you will get:

  1. Rays that make sense in the sequential model will be faithfully represented in the non-sequential model
  2. Rays that are terminated in the sequential model will be terminated in the non-sequential model.

What you won’t get:

  1. Stray light
  2. Ghost reflections
  3. Fresnel reflections or coating issues

However, you wouldn’t get any of these in your original blackbox model anyway; these constructs don’t exist in most sequential models.

 

Hi Brain, 

Could you please expand more on how to “

  • Start rays in the non-sequential model, detect them at the entrance pupil of your sequential model”

How to detect the non-sequential model created rays in the sequential mode?

Thanks!

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